CAT CAT READS THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

NEW YORK CITY LETS SOME NON-CITIZENS VOTE AND BIDEN AND PUTIN GO HEAD TO HEAD OVER UKRAINE.

STAY TUNED.

"IVORY TOWER" IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

ON OUR PANEL TONIGHT WE HAVE KRISTI ANDERSEN FROM THE MAXWELL SCHOOL AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE.

LATE LAST WEEK REPRESENTATIVE JOHN KATKO ANNOUNCED HE WILL NOT RUN FOR RE-ELECTION.

THAT'S BIG NEWS HERE IN NEW YORK'S 24TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT, WHICH HE HAS REPRESENTED SINCE 2015.

AND IT'S NEWS NATIONWIDE AS KATKO WAS ONE OF THE TEN HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED TO IMPEACH PRESIDENT TRUMP THE SECOND TIME.

KATKO STILL HAS ANOTHER YEAR TO GO, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HIS RECORD?

HAS HE BEEN A GOOD REPRESENTATIVE FOR CENTRAL NEW YORK?

>> HE HAS WON FOUR TIMES.

THAT MEANS HE IS DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.

YEAH, I THINK HE HAS DONE WHAT HE HAS TO DO TO CONTINUE TO WIN AS A REPUBLICAN IN A FAIRLY PURPLE DISTRICT.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT OUR PREVIOUS REPRESENTATIVE, JIM WALSH, WHO WAS REPRESENTING SYRACUSE FOR 20 YEARS, I THINK, PRIOR TO-- >> NOT THE IMMEDIATE PREDECESSOR OF KATKO.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

THERE WAS A LITTLE GLITCH IN THERE WITH ANNE-MARIE.

>> AND DAN MAFAY.

>> BUT HE NEVER WON THOUGH.

>> AND IT SEEMED TO ME THAT AT THE TIME AND THEN LOOKING BACK, TOO, THAT JIM WALSH WAS A REAL OLD FASHIONED MODERATE REPUBLICAN, WHO WAS A GOOD REPRESENTATIVE OF THIS DISTRICT IN THAT WAY.

AND SEEMED LIKE A GOOD GUY ALWAYS TO ME.

KATKO DOESN'T QUITE APPROACH THAT.

I THINK HE MOVED BACK-- HE WASN'T-- MAYBE HE DIDN'T HAVE THAT COMFORTABLE POSITION THAT WALSH DID IDEOLOGICALLY.

BUT IN MY MIND, I MEAN I CURRENTLY DRAW A BIG BRIGHT LINE BETWEEN THOSE REPUBLICANS WHO BUY INTO THE BIG LIE AND THOSE WHO DON'T.

AND KATKO DIDN'T.

HE VOTED TO IMPEACH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

HE DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

HE WAS AMONG THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO TRIED TO SET UP THE BIPARTISAN INVESTIGATION OF JANUARY 6 AND THAT DIDN'T WORK OBVIOUSLY AND NOW IT'S A DEMOCRATIC DOMINATED COMMITTEE.

BUT YES, HE HAS BEEN A REASONABLY GOOD REPRESENTATIVE OF THE DISTRICT.

>> TARA, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> IN GENERAL, I WOULD AGREE WITH KRISTI.

I THINK HE HAS BEEN A GOOD REPRESENTATIVE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE ENJOYED ABOUT KATKO IS THAT THERE WAS A LEVEL OF GROWTH.

I THINK WHEN HE FIRST BECAME A CONGRESSMAN, HE WAS A LITTLE LESS MODERATE, I GUESS, WOULD BE A BETTER WAY OF PUTTING IT, A LITTLE MORE QUOTE UNQUOTE FIRM IN HIS CONSERVATIVE VIEWS.

AND I DO THINK AS HE LISTENED TO A CERTAIN EXTENT TO THE PEOPLE IN HIS CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT, I THINK HE DID MODIFY SOME OF HIS VIEWS.

FOR EXAMPLE, HE SUPPORTED SEVERAL OF THE STIMULUS PACKAGES AND BIG SPENDING, BIG GOVERNMENT IS CERTAINLY NOT SOMETHING THAT MOST REPUBLICANS SUPPORT.

BUT HE ALSO UNDERSTOOD THE TIMES.

HE UNDERSTAND, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IN THE DISTRICT SO THAT'S SOMETHING I HAVE APPRECIATED ABOUT HIM.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN THE BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENT FOR ME DURING HIS TENURE IN CONGRESS HAS BEEN HIS LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO MEET ONE ON ONE WITH HIS CONSTITUENTS.

YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME I GET ONE OF THOSE ROBO CALLS TELLING ME HE IS HAVING A TOWN HALL, I'M OFF AT WORK.

SO BY THE TIME I GET HOME, THE TOWN HALL HAS STARTED OR IT'S OVER.

AND YOU KNOW, AS A PERSON IN HIS DISTRICT, THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN VERY FRUSTRATING TO ME BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT EVEN NECESSARILY I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING TO HIM, BUT I'D LIKE TO LISTEN.

AND THAT'S BEEN ONE OF MY BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENTS WITH HIM.

>> ANIRBAN, I KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING YOU HAD THOUGHT AS WELL.

>> YES, I HAVE AN IDEA THAT HE WAS NOT WANTING TO DO TOWN HALL BECAUSE OF FEAR OF SOME INTRANSIGENT GROUP THAT WOULD COME AND HECKLE HIM SO HE DID DO TOWN HALL LATER ON.

>> HE DOES THEM BASICALLY VIRTUALLY.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK AS A MODERATE REPUBLICAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S ONLY THE SCORE BOARDS CAN SHOW.

I WAS LOOKING THROUGH BALLOTPEDI A AND TRUMP LOST BY 10 PERCENTAGE POINTS BUT KATKO WON BY 10 PERCENTAGE POINTS.

THAT SHOWS SOMETHING ABOUT HIS ACCEPTABILITY AND SO ON.

HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST REPUBLICANS TO VOTE FOR THE SECOND IMPEACHMENT.

HE DIDN'T VOTE FOR THE FIRST ONE.

HE SAID TO ALLOW THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO INCITE THIS ATTACK, WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES, IS A DIRECT THREAT TO THE FUTURE OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

AND HE CONTINUED TO SAY HE CANNOT BE THE STANDARD BEARER, HE MEANS TRUMP, OF OUR PARTY GOING FORWARD.

THESE ARE PRETTY STRONG WORDS COMING FROM A REPUBLICAN, RIGHT?

AND HE VOTED FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.

SO WHAT I SEE GOOD IN KATKO IS NOT JOINING THE DELUSIONAL CAMP OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT KRISTI IS TALKING ABOUT CONSTANTLY PEDDLING THIS LIE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN AND FINDING OUT NEW WAYS TO RESTRICT VOTING.

BUT I DO SEE HE VOTE ACCORDING TO 538 WITH TRUMP ABOUT 72% OF TIMES.

AND THEN A COUPLE OF THINGS I WAS UFFER FAVORABLE TO ME, FOR EXAMPLE, THIS BILL ABOUT REQUIRING CAMPAIGNS TO REPORT OFFER OF ASSISTANCE FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS.

HE VOTED AGAINST THAT AND WITH TRUMP.

ESTABLISHING HUMANITARIAN STANDARDS FOR PEOPLE IN CUSTODY OF BORDER PROTECTION.

HE VOTED AGAINST THAT.

SO IMMIGRATION WISE HE SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN MODERATE DEMOCRAT.

>> HE HAS SPENT TIME NOT ONLY CURRENTLY BUT IN HIS PREVIOUS CAREER, AT THE BORDER WHEN HE WAS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WORKING DOWN ON THE BORDER, SO HE DOES HAVE SOME FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IS GOING ON THERE.

>> SO I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU THINK, ANIRBAN AND TARA, ABOUT HIS MOTIVES FOR RETIRING OR NOT RUNNING AGAIN.

>> WELL, I MEAN, I'M NOT VERY SURE.

I CANNOT THINK FOR HIM.

BUT GIVEN WHAT HE IS SEEING IN HIS OWN PARTY, IT'S QUITE NORMAL TO FEEL THAT HE FEELS REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE, ESPECIALLY FOR A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN IMPEACHED AND THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.

IF REPUBLICAN PARTY WANTS TO SQUEEZE OUT ANY KIND OF MODERATE VOICE, WHICH IS NOT STANDING BY LIKE AN OUTRIGHT LIE, THAT'S PRETTY UNFORTUNATE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

BUT I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE HE HAS DESIGNS FOR RUNNING FOR SENATE WHICH ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES WAS SAYING IN OUR PREVIOUS EMAILS.

BUT ON A MORE LIGHTER NOTE, IF HE IS A MODERATE REPUBLICAN, HE COULD BE A MODERATE DEMOCRAT, TOO.

THE DEMOCRATS CAN WELCOME HIM IN THE CAMP.

THAT WOULD BE NICE.

>> THAT WOULD BE QUITE A SWITCH.

HE DOES SEEM TO BE-- ALWAYS SEEMS MORE INTERESTED IN GOVERNING, HE WAS INTERESTED IN THE DELUSIONAL CAUCUS BUT THE RISING STARS IN THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW, THE REPUBLICAN STARS ARE NOT SO INTERESTED IN GOVERNING AS THEY ARE INTERESTED IN OWNING THE LIDS AS THEY SAY.

>> PERFORMING.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE WHOLE REDISTRICTING ASPECT.

THAT MUST PLAY INTO THAT, TAR AR.

>> THERE HAS BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF TALK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF HE HAVING TO RUN AGAINST 10 CLAUDIA TENNEY TO REPRESENT THE DISTRICT.

CERTAINLY THAT IS A POSSIBILITY OR WAS A POSSIBILITY IN TERMS OF THE REDISTRICTING, I DON'T THINK REALLY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT MUCH OF A CHALLENGE FOR HIM.

I THINK HE, IN TERMS OF REPUBLICANS IN THE CURRENT 24th DISTRICT, HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF.

AND WHILE THEY MAY NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING HE HAS SAID AND DONE, I THINK IN GENERAL, THEY WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED HIM.

I DON'T REALLY SEE THAT AS BEING THE STRONGEST REASON WHY HE MIGHT HAVE MADE THIS CHOICE.

>> I DON'T SEE IT AS A POLITICAL CHOICE REALLY.

I MEAN HE HAS GOT UNEXPERIENCED DEMOCRATS WHO ARE RUNNING AGAINST HIM AS THE DISTRICT IS NOW AND REPUBLICANS WITHOUT MUCH HEFT AT ALL, I THINK.

AND TENNEY, BUT HE COULD HAVE BEATEN TENNEY.

PEOPLE IN HER DISTRICT DON'T EVEN LIKE HER.

>> BUT SHE DID WIN.

MORE THAN HALF OF THEM LIKE HER.

A NEW LAW WENT INTO EFFECT IN NEW YORK CITY LAST WEEK THAT ALLOWS NON-CITIZENS TO VOTE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS AS LONG AS THEY'VE BEEN LEGAL RESIDENTS OF THE CITY FOR 30 DAYS.

THE LIBERAL FORMER MAYOR BILL BLASIO DID NOT SIGN THAT BILL WHEN IT REACHED HIS DESK, BUT NEW MAYOR ERIC ADAMS DID.

SIMILAR LAWS ARE IN EFFECT IN MORE THAN A DOZEN OTHER JURISDICTIONS IN THE U.S.

PROPONENTS OF THE LAW SAY IT'S FAIR, OPPONENTS SAY IT JUST SHOWS DEMOCRATS WANT TO ALLOW IMMIGRATION TO PAD THEIR VOTING ROLLS.

I'LL PUT THE QUESTION DIRECTLY.

SHOULD NON-CITIZENS BE ALLOWED TO VOTE IN SOME MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS?

>> I THINK THEY SHOULD BUT IN VERY LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND ONE OF THE FEW AREAS WHERE I AGREE THAT THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO VOTE-- AND I WANT TO POINT OUT TWO THINGS: ONE IS THE 30 DAYS.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IS A MONTH.

I HAVE DONE FELLOWSHIPS IN OTHER CITIES FOR A MONTH.

SO SHOULD I HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO VOTE IN THEIR ELECTION?

SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE.

THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT THERE ARE FEW CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THAT MAKES SENSE.

ONE WOULD BE IN SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS.

IF YOU HAVE CHILDREN IN A SCHOOL DISTRICT, YOU SHOULD HAVE SOME SAY IN WHAT GOES ON IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

THAT MAKES SENSE.

BUT SIMPLY SAYING YOU HAVE BEEN IN A DISTRICT, YOU HAVE BEEN IN AN AREA, IN A CITY FOR 30 DAYS AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO VOTE FOR MAYOR OR ON REFERENDUM IN THAT CITY, THAT DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE SHORT RESIDENCY.

>> I THINK THE 30 DAYS THOUGH, I THINK WE ARE MISUNDERSTANDING THAT.

AND I DON'T KNOW THIS FOR SURE.

I'D LIKE TO CHECK ON IT.

BUT IF YOU HAVE BEEN A LEGAL IMMIGRANT, MEANING YOU HAVE A GREEN CARD FOR 30 DAYS, YOU'VE PROBABLY BEEN HERE FOR 10 YEARS BEFORE.

I DON'T THINK THAT THAT-- IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU JUST ARRIVED AT J.F.K.

30 DAYS AGO.

>> WELL, YOU HAVE TO BE A LEGAL RESIDENT AND HAVE DOCUMENTATION.

>> AND THAT TAKES A WHILE.

>> RIGHT.

THAT TAKES A WHILE, BUT YOU HAVE TO ESTABLISH A RESIDENCY IN THAT CITY FOR 30 DAYS.

>> RIGHT.

AND THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME.

AND I THINK THAT-- SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLICAN CRITICISM OF THIS ENVISIONS PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, LITERALLY LANDING AT THE AIRPORT OR CROSSING THE BORDER OR SOMEHOW GETTING IN HERE, BEING LEGAL, AND THEN 30 DAYS THEY'VE ONLY BEEN IN THE COUNTRY FOR 30 DAYS.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING.

I THINK, AND I WOULD SAY TO YOUR ALLOWING OR WANTING TO ALLOW IMMIGRANTS WHO HAVE CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOLS OR LIVE IN A SCHOOL DISTRICT TO VOTE, THAT ALSO, I THINK, ARGUES THAT THEY SHOULD VOTE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS.

HOW THEIR ROADS ARE GOING TO BE PLOWED, WHAT KIND OF SOCIAL SERVICES ARE GOING TO BE PROVIDED TO THEM.

I DON'T SEE WHY THAT-- THOSE WHAT IS IN NEW YORK NOW, THE MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS AND THE SCHOOL BOARD ARE THINGS THAT IMMIGRANTS CAN VOTE IN IN SOME PLACES AND I THINK THAT IS PERFECTLY FINE.

>> IN TERMS OF PERCEPTION, ANIRBAN, THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY EASY TO TWIST IN A NEGATIVE WAY FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CERTAINLY.

AND I'VE ALREADY SEEN PUNDITS ON TV TALKING ABOUT THIS PHRASING TO IT IMPLY IT'S OPEN SEASON, ANYBODY CAN COME IN AND VOTE IN 30 DAYS.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, GIVE A HISTORY LESSON TO THOSE PUNDITS RIGHT?

FOR THE LONGEST TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY FROM 1776-1926, IMMIGRANTS COULD VOTE.

THEY COULD VOTE IN FEDERAL ELECTIONS.

THEY DO VOTE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS.

>> EVEN IF THEY WERE NOT CITIZENS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT AND THE VOTING WAS POLICED BASED ON GENDER, CLASS AND RACE.

IT'S ONLY WHEN THE DARKER SHADE OF EUROPE STARTED SHOWING UP WITH THEIR CATHOLIC BELIEVINGS IN 1926 THAT THE ANGER OVERFLOWED ABOUT WHETHER CAN WE INTEGRATE THESE ITALIANS INTO AMERICAN SOCIETY AND ALL THE FEARS WHICH CREATED THE IMMIGRATION LAWS AND THERE ARE PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD PLACES AROUND THE WORLD WHERE PEOPLE CAN VOTE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS AND TO ANSWER THE QUESTION MORE DIRECTLY, WE CAN TURN IT AROUND.

ONE OF THE REASONS PEOPLE USED TO GIVE THAT TIME IS YES, WE WELCOME PEOPLE TO INVEST IN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

WE WELCOME THEM TO TO BECOME PART OF THE AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA AT THAT TIME MAKES AMERICAN DEMOCRACY MORE ATTRACTIVE AND VIBRANT.

NOT JUST THAT YOU COME HERE AND CONSUME AND HAVE PROPERTY.

I THINK 30 DAYS IS NOT PERMANENT RESIDENCY.

IF YOU HAVE 30 DAYS PERIOD.

IF YOU HAVE RESIDENCY FOR 30 DAYS BUT HAVE I TO CHECK THAT.

BUT YOU KNOW, ON A BIGGER NOTE, ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS YOU KNOW, THE TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, WASN'T THAT IN AMERICAN INDEPENDENCE DECLARATION, RIGHT?

ONE IN THREE, ONE IN FOUR, WE ARE SEEING THESE NUMBERS IN BIG CITIES WERE IMMIGRANTS AND WE COUNT IMMIGRANTS FOR REDISTRICTING PURPOSES.

THEY PAY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PAYROLL TAXES.

THEY'RE ESSENTIAL WORKERS, RIGHT?

HOW DO WE JUSTIFY A DEMOCRACY WITH 20 TO 30% OF THE POPULACE WHO PAY MONEY ARE LOCKED OUT OF VOTING IN LOCAL ELECTIONS WHEN THE HISTORY... >> THERE IS ANY LIMIT ON THAT, WHO IN THAT CASE SHOULD BE ABLE TO VOTE IN YOUR VIEW?

>> I MEAN I THINK IF YOU PAY TAXES AND YOU HAVE BEEN HERE FOR MAYBE NOT ONE MONTH, BECAUSE ONE MONTH, I WOULD SAY WHEN I CAME HERE IN A MONTH, I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING.

I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HOT SUPREME COURT JUSTICES WERE.

SO I THINK A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO MAYBE A YEAR, RIGHT, TO KIND OF KNOW ABOUT THE POLITICAL SYSTEM, MAYBE A COUPLE OF THINGS, WORKSHOPS REGARDING VOTING FOR NEW IMMIGRANTS.

BUT LOCAL ELECTIONS, I THINK IS FAIR GAME.

>> I JUST WANT TO ADD ONE THING THAT NEW YORK CITY INITIALLY SORT OF STARTED THIS BY ALLOWING IMMIGRANTS TO VOTE IN SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS AND STATISTICALLY ONLY ABOUT 5% OF IMMIGRANTS WHO COULD HAVE VOTED IN THOSE SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS DID.

SO TO SAY THAT THIS AUTOMATICALLY MEANS THIS IS GOING TO HAVE THIS GREAT INCREASE IN PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY IS NOT REALLY TRUE.

ALSO THE SFACT THAT WE ARE A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY.

WE DON'T GET UPSET WHEN PRISONERS IN JAIL CAN'T VOTE, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO THERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SORT OF GENERALLY REPRESENTED BY VARIOUS CONGRESS PEOPLE, ET CETERA, WHO THEMSELVES DON'T ACTUALLY VOTE FOR THAT CONGRESS PERSON.

>> NOW LET'S MOVE ON TO A STORY I THINK WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT DWIGHT A BIT IN THE FUTURE.

LAST WEEK'S FLURRY OF DIPLOMACY OVER UKRAINE DID NOT APPEAR TO SLOW WHAT FEELS LIKE INEVITABLE RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION.

VLADIMIR PUTIN'S DEMANDS TO ESSENTIALLY RE-DIVIDE EUROPE INTO SPHERES OF INFLUENCE IS A NON-STARTER TO NATO.

THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS RUSSIA HAS ALREADY INFILTRATED OPERATIVES INTO THE BORDER REGION OF UKRAINE TO CREATE A PRETEXT FOR INVASION.

BY THE TIME WE GO TO AIR, SECRETARY STATE BLINKEN AND HIS RUSSIAN COUNTERPART WILL HAVE MET ONE MORE TIME IN AN EFFORT TO RESOLVE THE CONFLICT.

HOW SHOULD BIDEN AND THE WEST RESPOND TO RUSSIAN DEMANDS?

>> SO, THE UKRAINE SITUATION IS VERY COMPLICATED WITH A VERY LONG HISTORY, RIGHT?

SO A COUPLE OF HISTORY LESSONS ARE DUE.

ONE IS THAT AFTER THE COLD WAR ENDED, THERE WAS CERTAIN KINDS OF PROMISES, FOR EXAMPLE, SECRETARY OF STATE WARREN CHRIS TER CHRISTOPHER, THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT THAT NATO WOULD NOT EXPAND EASTWARD.

THIS WAS SUPPORTED BY VERY IMPORTANT PEOPLE IN THE FOREIGN POLICY AMONG THE FOREIGN POLICY ELITE, MOST NOTABLY GEORGE KEENAN WHO WAS ARCHITECT OF THE POLICY, EVEN SUPPORTED BY ROBERT GATES, RIGHT?

THAT NATO SHOULD NOT EXPAND.

AND YET IN 20 YEARS WE SEE 14 MORE COUNTRIES BEING ADDED AND NOW THE TALK IS WHETHER UKRAINE WOULD BE ADDED OR NOT.

SO LET'S LISTEN TO, I AM NOT SAYING PUTIN IS A SAINT.

HE IS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC, AUTHORITARIAN LEADER WHO FREQUENTLY BUMPS OFF HIS ADVERSARIES, BUT HERE IS WHAT HE SAID TO A DIPLOMAT.

HE SAID THE FORMAL HALT TO NATO ENLARGEMENT AND FURTHER EXPANSION OF ALLIANCE IN THE FORMER SOVIET TERRITORY AND END TO WESTERN MILITARY ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINE AND BAN ON INTERMEDIATE RANGE OF MISSILES TO EUROPE.

SO WITHOUT PAINTING PUTIN AS A SAINT, ONE CAN SAY STRATEGIC SECURITY INTERESTS LEGITIMATELY FEARFUL TO RUSSIA WHEN IT SEES ALL THIS ENLARGEMENT AT ITS BORDERS, EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF PROMISE... >> NATO IS A DEFENSIVE ORGANIZATION.

THEY'RE NOT PLANNING TO LAUNCH ANOTHER LAND INVASION OF RUSSIA, RIGHT?

>> WELL, SECURITY DILEMMA, INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, IT'S DIFFICULT TO CONVINCE YOUR ADVERSARIY.

THINK IF CHINA AND RUSSIA HAD ALLIANCE WITH WESTERN COUNTRIES AND WANTED DEFENSIVE MISSILES IN MEXICO.

WHAT WOULD AMERICA THINK?

>> IN THOSE DISCUSSIONS LAST WEEK, I BELIEVE RUSSIANS HIVE LIFE I ALMOST SAID THE SOVIETS-- THE RUSSIANS DID FLOAT THIS IDEA ABOUT CUBA AND VENEZUELA AS HAVING SOME SORT OF MISSILES.

KRISTI.

>> YEAH, IT DOES SEEM TO ME THAT I APPRECIATE ANIRBAN KIND OF GIVING PUTIN A LITTLE OUT THERE.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT-- AND I I AM MUCH LESS AN EXPERT ON THIS THAN YOU ARE-- BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE BUDAPEST AGREEMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH WAS 1994.

AFTER THE FALL OF THE SOVIET UNION, THE THINGS IT SPECIFIES AND RUSSIA AGREED TO ARE YOU KNOW, RESPECTING THE INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY OF UKRAINE, KEEPING THE EXISTING BORDERS.

WELL THEY'VE ALREADY VIOLATED THAT IN 2014.

SO MY FEELING IS THAT PUTIN IS STARTING-- HE CAN'T CLAIM MUCH-- HE CAN'T CLAIM VERY MUCH BECAUSE HE HAS ALREADY VIOLATED THESE-- >> THIS SEEMS ENTIRELY CONTRIVED, DOES IT NOT?

IS THIS NOT A CONTRIVED CRISIS?

>> ANIRBAN IS SAYING NO, IT'S NOT CONTRIVED BECAUSE OF PUTIN'S IMAGINATION IN A WAY.

HE IS IMAGINING THAT NATO COULD BE NOT JUST DEFENSIVE BUT AGGRESSIVE.

>> RIGHT.

AND I'M SAYING IN INTERNATIONAL POLITICS, THIS IS VERY COMMON.

IT IS VERY LEGITIMATE FOR A BIG POWER-- THIS IS THE TRAGEDY OF BIG POWER POLITICS, LEGITIMATE FOR BIG POWERS TO GET NERVOUS WHEN YOU SEE DEFENSIVE ARRANGEMENT, SEEMS OFFENSIVE TO MANY ADVERSARIES AND VICE VERSA.

>> TARA.

>> I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT YOUR QUESTION?

>> I WAS-- [LAUGHTER] I WAS SAYING IT SEEMED LIKE A CONTRIVED CRISIS.

>> ABSOLUTELY IT IS.

YOU KNOW, AND THIS REALLY GOES BACK TO 2014.

IT GOES BACK TO THE INITIAL SORT OF QUOTE UNQUOTE INVASION OF UKRAINE.

PUTIN HAS BEEN LOOKING FOR A WAY TO BEGIN TO EXPAND WESTWARD TO SORT OF REGAIN, IN A SENSE, AT LEAST CONTROL AND INFLUENCE OVER THE UKRAINE.

HE ASSUMED THAT AFTER THE ELECTION THAT HE HAD SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE A LITTLE MORE PRO-RUSSIA OR AT THE VERY LEAST WILLING TO LISTEN TO RUSSIA.

AND THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED AND IF ANYTHING, UKRAINE HAS ACTUALLY BECOME MORE CONNECTED WITH THE WEST, NOT LESS CONNECTED WITH THE WEST.

AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK ANIRBAN IS RIGHT IS THAT PUTIN, BECAUSE OF THIS INCREASED CONNECTION WITH THE WEST, IS FEELING VERY NERVOUS.

BUT IT IS CERTAINLY CONTRIVED.

AND BY MOVING TROOPS-- ANY TIME YOU MOVE TROOPS TO SOMEONE'S BORDER, THERE IS ALWAYS POTENTIAL FOR SOMEONE TO GET, YOU KNOW, ITCHY TRIGGER FINGER SO TO SPEAK.

AND FOR THERE TO BE SOMETHING THAT WILL HAPPEN THAT GIVES YOU THE OPTION TO MOVE IN AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT HE IS HOPING FOR.

I ALSO THINK WE HAVE TO PUT THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF AFGHANISTAN.

PUTIN SEES AMERICA AS BEING IN A WEAKER POSITION RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF AFGHANISTAN THAN IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN PRE-OUR PULLOUT OF AFGHANISTAN.

HE IS HOPING THAT BECAUSE HE WEENT WANT ON THE AFGHANISTAN, WE WILL BE MUCH MORE WILLING TO BASICALLY MAKE AN AGREEMENT WITH HIM ABOUT UKRAINE MOVING INTO NATO, ABOUT WE WON'T-- WE'LL USE SANCTIONS WHICH BASICALLY ARE INEFFECTIVE AGAINST RUSSIA IT SEEMS, RATHER THAN ANY REAL THREAT.

>> WE'LL HAVE TO WATCH THIS VERY CAREFULLY, CERTAINLY.

AND CERTAINLY WATCHING THIS CAREFULLY IN TAIWAN RIGHT NOW TO SEE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN TERMS OF THE U.S.

STANDING UP TO AUTHORITARIAN AGGRESSION SHOULD WE SAY.

WE HAVE TO MOVE TO OUR As AND Fs.

KRISTI, WE'LL BEGIN WITH YOUR F. >> MY F TO THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER WHO DOESN'T THINK HE NEEDS TO FOLLOW HIS OWN GOVERNMENT'S ORDERS.

HE IS IN POLITICAL TROUBLE BECAUSE HE ATTENDED PARTIES DURING PERIODS WHERE EVERYONE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN COVID LOCK DOWN.

THERE IS EVEN EMAIL EVIDENCE THAT SUGGESTS HE ACTUALLY HOSTED LARGE PARTIES AT 10 DOWNING STREET.

HARD TO KEEP THAT A SECRET, I WOULD THINK.

>> TARA ARE YOUR F. >> TO THE EXORBITANT SALARIES THAT CONTINUE TO BE PAID TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACHES.

AS THE COLLEGIATE FOOTBALL SEASON CLOSED, THE 25 HIGHEST PAID COACHES EARNED BETWEEN $5 MILLION AND $11 MILLION IN SALARIES AND BENEFITS.

ONLY ABOUT HALF OF THEM ACTUALLY MADE IT TO A MAJOR BOWL GAME.

AND THIS IS OCCURRING AS THE COST OF COLLEGE TUITION IS CONTINUALLY RISING.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY F GOES TO THE FOX NEWS HOST LARA INGRAM INTRODUCING A NEW SECTION CALLED POSITIVELY BOOSTED AND STARTED MAKING FUN OF VACCINATED PUBLIC FIGURES WHO HAD TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID.

LATEST VICTIM WAS JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN.

SHE STARTED CLAPPING AND APPLAUDING SAYING TRIPLE VACCS JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN, OUR FAVORITE HAS TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID YESTERDAY.

I GUESS THERE IS NO PLACE FOR EMPATHY FOR A NETWORK THAT CALLS ITSELF CHRISTIAN, I SUPPOSE.

>> AND NOW THE As, KRISTI.

>> ABOUT TIME TO GIVE AN A TO RACHEL MAY, MY REPRESENTATIVE IN THE DISTRICT, REDISTRICTING MAY MEAN I'M NO LONGER IN HER DISTRICT BUT SHE HAS BEEN THE SORT OF REPRESENTATIVE THAT I THINK EVERY CITIZEN SHOULD EXPERIENCE.

SHE SPENDS A LOT OF TIME TRAVELING AROUND HER DISTRICT, REALLY LISTENING TO PEOPLE.

SHE IS INTERESTED IN AND VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT POLICY DETAILS AND SHE REALLY SEEMS TO GET A LOT OF SATISFACTION FROM DOING A GOOD JOB.

IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE BEING IN THE 53rd DISTRICT WITH RACHEL MAY.

>> TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO ALL THE BUSINESSES AND INDIVIDUALS WHICH ELECTORAL THOROUGHLY CLEAN THEIR PARKING LOTS AND SIDEWALKS WHEN WE HAVE SNOW AND ICE.

DOING SO YOU ARE MAKING IT BETTER FOR INDIVIDUALS TO USE THE SIDEWALKS REGARDS THAN THE STREETS, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN.

AND IN TERMS OF BUSINESSES, BASICALLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THANK YOU TO YOUR CUSTOMERS FOR USING YOUR BUSINESS.

>> ANIRBAN, YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO THE UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE WHO IS MANAGING THIS MASSIVE DISTRIBUTION OF COVID TEST KITS TO ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS.

THE FREE TEST KIT DELIVERY SITE WAS UP AND RUNNING EARLIER THAN EXPECTED.

RESIDENTS SHOW HOUSEHOLDS IN U.S. CAN ORDER FOUR HOUSEHOLD TESTS AND GO TO COVIDTESTS.GOV.

>> AND THE SYSTEM IS WORKING PRETTY WELL THUS FAR.

WE'VE LEARNED HOW TO PUT TOGETHER I.T.

FINALLY.

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